Jasher

Part Four

1 Tim. 2:12-15 (KJV)
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. [13] For Adam was first formed, then Eve. [14] And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. [15] Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
Any one doing an in depth study of this topic may want to read the book "I suffer not a woman". It has good historic background and a thorough look at the passage of 1Timothy 2:11 15.The authors were Richard and Catherine Clark Kroeger.

One of the difficulties with the interpretation of the afore mentioned passage is the Greek word "Authentein" (To dominate or rule over). It is only used once in the Bible so there is no frame of reference for this word inside of scripture. Words change in meaning over the years and this is a point in Kroger's book. They believe this passage was written in answer to heretical Gnostic error which was invading the Church.

Here is a comment based on Kroegers Book.

QUOTE: In light of the authentic meaning of the word "authentein" and of the social context within which Paul wrote his letters to Timothy, let me offer what I believe is an appropriate rendering of the text in Timothy. I believe Paul is saying, "I am not allowing (present tense for that situation) a woman to teach or to proclaim herself the originator of man (authentein)." Do you see how this translation offsets false doctrine?

The word that is frequently translated "silence," "hesuchia", also means harmony, peace, conformity or agreement. I therefore suggest Paul goes on to say, "she must be in agreement," meaning agreement with the scriptures and with sound teaching in the Church.

He continues in this vein saying, "Adam was formed first then Eve." This statement militates against the doctrine of Eve as progenitor. He also says "Adam was not deceived, but the woman was! And sinned!" This statement directly contradicts the notion that Eve was the "illuminator," and carrier of new revelation.

I submit that this translation is possibly the most legitimate because it fits the social context, is true to the Greek, speaks to the troubled situation, and lines up perfectly with all of Paul's other teachings and practices concerning women.
CLOSE QUOTE:

This doctrine of a woman progenitor or “Goddess� - the originator of man smacks very much of the false doctrines of Babylon and Simeramus – wife of Nimrod. This verse was not a general statment for all time but rather a correction of a local situation.

Dr. Paul Yonggi Cho is the pastor of the largest church in the world. He said that his ministry would not be what it is today were it not for his mother-in-law and for women who were willing to pastor the many cell groups of which his church consists. He claims that 6,000 women were leading cell groups before he found the first man who was willing to do the task

Jasher

I guess you had to be there to know. Take the Churches in Galatia for example. The life expectancy for men was 45. Women was 38. Disease and malnutrition were commonplace. The towns were dirty, smelly, and unsafe. If the men could find work for the day they would earn a Denarius, which would barely buy a days food for a family.

Half of children died before age 10. Twenty five percent of children died before their first birthday. Women married in early teens and raised families until past child bearing days. There was little contraception, so as soon as one is weaned expect another. Your children were your Social Security plan back then. The literacy rate was about ten percent - so the kids didn't go to school and were underfoot all day long.

Light was a smokey small oil lamp. Air conditioning was a window. Toilet was a privy. Water had to be carried from the local supply - which may be distant in many cases. There was little medical care, so if you got appendicitis - you died. No radio, electric,TV, cars, or anything. Women were pretty much a posession and could be divorced for any reason. Girl babies were often "Exposed" or abandoned if the parents were poor. Etc.

Oh for the good old days.

smellycat

pawns in a bigger war.

Dusty

That's incredible !!! Yea for the women.!!! I got to toot my own horn. Interesting comment.... women are rising to the task all over the world and God is blessing and calling women.

Thanks Yasher for all that info. Very interesting. God Bless.

__________________

Trials prove a Christian

Love confirms a Christian

But death crowns a Christian

InHisLove

How 'bout that! Women are NOT worthless in church! Hallelujah!

Thanks for the info Yasher.

__________________
Look Forward And Progress!

Look Backward And Run Into Things!

Unconventional

The only problem I ever had with a woman in church is the elderly lady behind me whose voice cracked whenever she sang, and it sent shivers up my spine.

I don't see in Scripture where--in the context of modern day society and as an absolute--women cannot participate fully in church. I have less of a problem with a righteous female pastor than I do an unrighteous male pastor.

__________________
The foundations that we used to uphold
Now regarded as the madness of old
Every alteration made to the standard of truth
Is a nail in the coffin we hold
We embody everything they despise
Because they see us through degenerate eyes
So when they cast you down as intolerant filth
Stand firm, never bow to the lies
Demon Hunter - "Relentless Intolerance"

InHisLove

__________________
Look Forward And Progress!

Look Backward And Run Into Things!

Dusty

Ha Ha ........ Maybe that was me. !!!!!!

__________________

Trials prove a Christian

Love confirms a Christian

But death crowns a Christian

God's_Child

Dusty! I have a good sense of humor!!!

__________________
"For God ... giveth grace to the humble".
(1Pe.5:5)
"Grace be with all them that love our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity. Amen".
(Eph.6:24)

GordonSlocum

Hi, to everyone. My first post. I use to be very strict on this subject.

However, the only restriction I see is being a pastor of a local church. The sky is the limit outside that in this order God first, Family Second and all the rest. The interesting thing is if a man or woman puts God first they will respect all members in the family take second place to the other. There are examples of women in ministry in the NT. Why then should anyone forbid them? A husband, I would think, would be filled with joy to see his wife on fire for the Lord to do ministry.