Dusty

Hi Jax,

I get them in my inbox and you can too.

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For those who are new to the list, Bridges for Peace is a Christian charitable organization, headquartered in Jerusalem, Israel. Since 1977, we have been working to build Christian–Jewish understanding and support for the Jewish people and the Land of Israel. We do this through 14 different aid projects, and by disseminating information about Israel and teaching Christians about the Hebraic roots of Christianity. We have national offices in Israel, the United States, Canada, the United Kingdom, South Africa, Japan, and Australia. Our Spanish Resource Center is in Jerusalem, Israel.

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Trials prove a Christian

Love confirms a Christian

But death crowns a Christian

Michael

Thanks Dusty, i went to the site and registered. Pray for the peace of Jerusalem!

__________________
Life Is Short....Eternity Is Forever!
Laudate Jesu Christus!

PreciousMessage

Hi LA-girl,

Your points are well reasoned out.

Something to consider:

Read the prophecies of Isa, Jer, and Eze, and see how often the various nations are directly appealed to. This shows that God was not then the God of the Jews only, but of the Gentiles. When Israel at last refused to fulfill their mission, He sent them into captivity. A heathen King, Nebuchadnezzar acknowledged God throughout the whole earth. King Cyrus and other Persian kings also made known the one true God.

Christ has overcome (Rom. 8:1-4) and has all power over heaven and earth. Therefore His name is Israel, and and is called that name. "The LORD hath called me from the womb ... And said unto Me, Thou are My servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified" (Isa. 49:1-3). There can be no doubt that Scripture primarily refers to Christ, as we can see by reading it. Will we be "one who has prevailed" at last?
The promises were not just for the Jews, but to all that were "far off." (See Acts 2:39; Isa. 57:19). Abraham, the head of the Jews, was a Gentile, "that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also" (Rom. 4:11,12). When Christ came, He said that He was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel and showed them at that moment who the lost sheep of Israel were by sending healing to a believing heathen woman (Matt. 15).

The word church means "called out." "This is he, that was in the "church in the wilderness," which the angel which spake to him in the mount Sinai, .." (Acts 7:38).

There is only one church and it is Christ's body (Eph. 1:19-23), and there is only one body. "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling" (Eph. 4:4).
God is Spirit, although He is a real God. Christ had a spiritual body after His resurrection, yet He was a literal being, and could be handled the same as other bodies.

Any attempt to make the promises apply to any other than those who are Christ's through the Spirit, is an an attempt to nullify the promises of the Gospel of God. "If ye are Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise" (Gal. 3:29).
“I will establish My covenant between Me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, ... the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession, and I will be their God.” (Gen. 17).

"Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ" (Gal. 3:16). It is not the "seed" without Abraham, he must be there! Therefore the possession of the land of Canaan, according to the promise to Abraham, involves the possession of everlasting life. But immortality is not received until the coming of Christ and the resurrection. Abraham understood this; for even while he was in the land of Canaan, he sojourned in it as in a strange country, desiring and looking for “a better country, that is an heavenly” (Heb. 11:9-16); and the fact that he “died in faith, not having received the promises” shows that he knew that he was to receive it at the resurrection.

But when the land of Canaan is given to Abraham for an everlasting possession, the restoration of all things will take place (Acts 3:20, 21). In reality, the possession of Canaan will be the whole earth. So Paul, speaking with direct reference to Genesis 17 says, “For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.” Rom. 4:13.

Therefore, “according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness" (2 Peter 3:13). This is the promised inheritance, which is assured to us by the Holy Spirit.

John

PreciousMessage

Hi LA-girl,

I support your Biblical assessment regarding "spiritual Israel."

Even our "secular" government supports the "literal" ideals of Israel. Interesting indeed. Also, there seems to be a strange separation between the New Testament Church and Israel, as if they are separate from one another.

Consider the following in which I may be sharing some of your same biblical facts:

The word “church”, from the original means “called out.” The Israelites were “called out” of Egypt. In the Old Testament they are referred to as “the congregation,” And Stephen, in his talk before the Sanhedrim, spoke of Israel as “the church in the wilderness.” “This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our father: who received the lively oracles to give unto us” (Acts 7:38). Just as Christ has many names in the Bible, so does the church.

There is but one church, for the church is Christ’s body (Eph. 1:19-23), and there is one body (Eph. 4:4). “There is one body, and one Spirit …” Christ says, “My sheep hear My voice,” “and they follow Me” (John 10:27). “The house of God” is the church of the living God” 1 Tim. 3:15). Christ and Moses are in the same fellowship (Heb. 3:2-6).

The “church in the wilderness” was the true church of Christ; for we are told “they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ" (1 Cor. 10:4).

The gospel was first preached to the gentiles, for Abraham was a Gentile, in other words, a heathen. He was brought up as a heathen, Terah was his father, and “served other gods” (Josh.24:2). So the preaching of the Gospel to the Gentiles was not a new thing in the days of Peter and Paul. The Jewish nation was taken out from among the heathen, and it is only by the preaching of the Gospel to the heathen that Israel is saved. (See Acts 25:14-18; Rom. 11: 25, 26).

The Gospel was given to Abraham in these words: “In thee shall all nations be blessed.” It should be stated here that the two words “heathen” (“Gentiles,” in R.V.) and “nations,” in verse 8, come from the same word in the Greek. In both the Hebrew and the Greek “the heathen” and “the nations” are the same. Abraham, by nature a gentile, came out of the land of Ur,-- a Chaldean or Babylonian, preached righteousness by faith.

As we know, Abraham had two sons, one by a bondwoman, and the other by a freewoman; one after the flesh, the other born after the Spirit. Many can be perplexed with respect to the "literal" and the "spiritual" seed of Abraham. Many talk as though the word "spiritual" were opposed to "literal." Actually, "spiritual" is opposed only to fleshly, or carnal, if you will. The true seed of Israel are only those who are spiritual. Christ had a spiritual body after His resurrection, yet He was real.

Who are Israel? Jacob was given the name Israel because of his victory in Christ. It's not the name that brings the blessing, but the blessing brings the name. Jacob did not possess the name by nature, nobody else can either. A Jew is syncronous with the name of Israel. An overcomer who praises the Lord. And "he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh: ... is one inwardly ...of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God" (Rom. 2:28, 29).

Gentiles, heathen in the sense of the word, have no rights to the kingdom of God in their natural condition. Only Israelites will share the kingdom with Him; for Israelites are overcomers, and the promise is, "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with Me in My throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with My Father in His throne" (Rev. 3:21). All Israel will be saved.

God is the author of "irony." The disciples had a misconception, only literal Israelites could really be saved. To eradicate their faulty understanding, Jesus declared, "I am not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (Matt. 15:24). At that very moment Jesus put a blessing on a poor, despised, gentile, Cannanite woman, a descendent of the "heathen" who inhabited the land before the days of Joshua. Jesus revealed to the unbelieving disciples that the Cannanite woman was an Israelite indeed. Sadly, this unbelief still greatly exists today. “God is no respecter of persons, but in every nation he that feareth Him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with Him" (Acts 10:34, 35).

blessings,

John

GordonSlocum

The majority of Islamic Nations have as their goal to wipe the nations of Israel of the face of the Map. Some avow it daily. This view is a well-documented goal. No one condones unjust acts regardless of who they are. However, Israel is in a constant state of war, and most nations of the world are asking them to lay back and be annihilated, do it this way or that way, we don't want to upset the Islamic nations who want to wipe you off the face of the earth.

All of the articles in the world accusing Israel, in my opinion, can't measure up to the open constant hate stated and displayed against Israel.

Before Israel moved into the land of Israel, the land had virtually been abandon by those that ruled it in the past. Israel brought restoration to the land. Now that they have restored the land the same ones that destroyed it now want to do it again.
The real motive is all the peoples of the world are anti God’s plan and this is the true motive. Satan is moving and shaking among the godless nations of this world. It is a spiritual war played out physically - directly apposed to anything God doing.

Boanerges

Israels military generally reacts when their country is attacked or in pre-emotive cases they will go after people who are planning their citizens harm. I have yet to see an Israelite strap on a bomb and kill innocent women and children -

PreciousMessage

Hi,

When will the end of the world come? "And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to ALL the nations, and then the end will come" (Matt. 24:14). We as Christians are to preach Christ and Him crucified.

A preacher of righteousness once stated in the year 1893, a seemingly very prophetic insightful statement:

"WE are reminded that we are by no means to think of Mohammedanism as a system of religion that is dying out, ... Mohammedanism is not less aggressive now than it was in the days of Mohammed. It is a religion of force, and can be successfully met only by the Gospel of peace. While it is not dying out, it is a dead religion, in that it has no spirit of life in it. The greater its activity, the greater the death that it causes. Therefore it must be met with the Gospel of life. Mohammedan missionaries need only zeal, and a knowledge of the theory of Mohammedanism. Christian missionaries must have the zeal and knowledge that comes from the life of Christ in the soul.” End Quote

It is important to note that if the land of Israel were to repent and turn to the Lord today they would not have to use earthly weapons, for the battle would belong to the Lord. "For the weapons of our welfare are not carnal." Blessed are the peacemakers. Today, is the day of our salvation. One only has to notice, that when Israel mingled with world and disobeyed the gospel, God would allow the enemies to come in, hence, Israel would repent and God would protect them. History is repeating itself. Will the land of Israel turn to the Lord? Remember, Israel are those who believe as Abraham did.

John

Dusty

Isaiah 2:2
In the last days the mountain of the LORD's temple will be established as chief among the mountains; it will be raised above the hills, and all nations will stream to it.


Daniel 11:6
After some years, they will become allies. The daughter of the king of the South will go to the king of the North to make an alliance, but she will not retain her power, and he and his power will not last. In those days she will be handed over, together with her royal escort and her father and the one who supported her.


Hosea 3:5
Afterward the Israelites will return and seek the LORD their God and David their king. They will come trembling to the LORD and to his blessings in the last days.


Micah 4:1
[ The Mountain of the LORD ] In the last days the mountain of the LORD's temple will be established as chief among the mountains; it will be raised above the hills, and peoples will stream to it.

__________________

Trials prove a Christian

Love confirms a Christian

But death crowns a Christian

Boanerges

Amen- God has not forgotten Israel even if they forgot Him- there will be a day of awakening for these sons of Abraham.

Jasher

The book of Revelation was not written to us - it was written to the Christians of the first century. So we only know what it means today by discovering what it meant to them back then.

The first thing you have to explain is why this isn't the classical list of the twelve tribes. John has drawn on the Old testament for many symbols - it doesn't mean the twelve original tribes. Here is what it does mean in my view.

THE LISTING OF THE TRIBES (144,000) IN REVELATION

JUDAH – Who came from the tribe of Judah? Who was the firstborn of the New Covenant? The firstborn was always listed first - and it is Jesus. He is at the head of this group of people and the name Judah means “praise.”

Reuben - who sees the son

Gad - a band; a troop

Asher – happiness

Naphtali - that struggles or fights

Manasseh - forgetfulness

Simeon - that hears or obeys

Levi - associated with him

Issachar - reward; recompense

Zebulun - dwelling; habitation

Joseph - increase

Benjamin - son of the right hand

(Benoni) - son of my sorrow, or pain

So the symbolic picture of the 144,000 is a company of the people of God for all ages - people who at their head is the firstborn Son seated at God’s right hand. A company of people who are happy and full of praise. An army who fights and obeys the one who has forgotten all of their sins; and they will increase and receive a reward and dwell with him forever. Good news in particular to someone facing starved lions in the arenas of Rome.

As Rachel lie dying of childbirth with Benjamin – she named him “Benoni” that means “son of my suffering.” Jacob said no - he will be called “Benjamin” – son of my right hand. What a beautiful picture of Christ we have been given. He is our Benoni - Benjamin.

Reference
Genesis 35:17-18 (NASB)
And it came about when she was in severe labor that the midwife said to her, "Do not fear, for now you have another son." 18 And it came about as her soul was departing (for she died), that she named him Ben-oni; but his father called him Benjamin.

So what about the two tribes that were left out of the classical list of tribes? If you look up their definitions you will quickly see why they were not included in the list given in Revelation.

Ephraim – not sure

Dan - judgment

God is not judging this company – they have escaped his judgment and wrath. You also need to take into account the fact that the 144,000 is mentioned in several places in Revelation. Are these all the same group or are they different?

Lets look for a moment.

Rev. 14:1 (NASB)
And I looked, and behold, the Lamb was standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His name and the name of His Father written on their foreheads.

Rev. 14:3 (NASB)
And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one could learn the song except the one hundred and forty-four thousand who had been purchased from the earth.

Looks to me like its all the same group that we described initially, but instead of being “Sealed” they had the name of the Son and the Father on their foreheads - Same difference. In 14:3 they were purchased from the earth – the persecuted and martyred Saints of God. Same group as the others all associated by the number 144,000. It relates first to the people to whom it was written in 95AD, but after that - to all Saints who have been tested on the Earth including us today. The redeemed company of the Lord were the only ones who could learn the new song because it was a song learned from the trials and tribulations of life on Earth. Does this make sense to you?

Numbers in the Book of Revelation are “Symbols” and not arithmetic. 144,000 is 12 x 12 x 10 x 10 x 10. These are numbers which symbolize the unknown number of believers in this group. Revelation had to be simple for the people to understand in their day because a lot of the Christians then were uneducated slaves.

So why do I think this is the correct interpretation of the 144,000? Several reasons. First of all this interpretation is simple, and It also meant something to the Christians of the First century. It means something to all Christians of all ages throughout history from out of its original context - including us today, and will be a blessing to those who are yet to be born - should the lord delay his coming even longer. It doesn’t change with time or with current events. It doesn’t just apply to a few select people somewhere out in the distant, obscure future.