beloved57

For whom did christ die ? The most controversial question within the religous circles of the ages.. Most all in the world today, believe that Jesus christ died for every human beingi n order to save them, but then turn around and say, the death of christ, in and of itself does not save anyone..but provides everyone in the world a chance or a opportunity for them to save themselves..
I want to tell you though, that the death of christ saved all that he died for, they live[spiritually], because he died for them..
2 cor 5:

14For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
As paul shares here, christ died for all in order that or for the purpose of them recieving life [ made alive] to live for the glory of God..
This means that we were made alive, created in christ jesus, unto good works, that He before had preapared for us to walk in..
Thats what it means by that, they should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again for them .
rom 4 tells us he rose for[because of] our Justification rom 4:
25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
Let us look at two different scriptures to determine what has been revealed by God, as to who Jesus christ died for.
1 jn 2:1,2
1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
and Jn 11:
50Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

51And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation; 52And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad
Let me say this from the start, Jesus christ death was limited and particular in purpose and design, but unlimited as to its scope of reference, no longer zeroing in on one nation of ethnic men, but spreading out to all nations of men..
By the grace of God, I will bring together the two text of scriptures, that will give Gods people an understanding of the death and purpose of christ, the saviour of the world.
lets look at jn 11 51
51And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
This statement that Jesus would die for a nation, was an actual prophesy from God, not guess work, but an actual revealation, for it says [ this he spake not of himself]..
So God himself in this particular , limits the intention of the death of christ to one nation [ the jews]
but he does not stop talking, note vs 52
52And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
but he shall also gather together in one [ one sheepfold, household, one nation] the children of God, that were scattered abroad..
Notice he did not say die but gather together in one. Thats because his death gathers and brings the children of God [ by election] to God, it gives us repentance to come to God..
1 pet 3:
For Christ also hath once suffered[or died] for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might[he shall] bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
So by means of his death, christ brings or gathers his people back to Gods sheepfold..
The same truth is taught in Jn 10:
15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
So we see the same sequence of thought, the death or dying[of christ] for a specific people and a bringing to God another group of people..
Notice something about jn 11
50Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
This is saying, that christ death for the nation of israel, was not to save all its inhabitants, but only that some of them will be saved, that the whole nation perish not..
We see words were used depicting the whole for the some in the whole..
This agrees with the principal of election towards israel, notice rom 11:

5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded. This agrees with the train of thought when christ spoke to a lady about the limited design of his mission matt 15:
22And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

23But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us. 24But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Even the intention within the nation of Israel, was limited to not them as a whole, but only the lost sheep of the house of Israel. God always deals with remants of the whole, yet calls it by the whole..
rom 9:
27Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
BTW, this same principle is in effect with the phrase of God so loved the world, yet it was not every single individual, but those that were in the world, that he loved jn 13:
1Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.
Jesus loved the world , is to say more specifically, he loves his own chosen ones in the world..

beloved57

There is a world [kosmos] of people Jesus shall save jn 3:
17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might[shall be] be saved.
There is also a world[kosmos] that shall be condemed. 1 cor 11:
32But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
There are two distinct purposes to those designated the world, you have the world of Jacobs, and the world of easus..
rom 9:
11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. 13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Those of us who are of the purpose of God according to election, those He Loves, but of those who are of the purpose of perdition, those He hates..
So we must remeber that Gods world of election is distinct from satans world of reprobation..
Yes God has decreed that satan has his world, a world of the ungodly..2 pet 2:
5And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
where also he [satan] is termed the prince of this world
jn 12:
31Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
jn 14:

30Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
jn 16:
11Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
So the prince and his world of ungodly seed, is Judged and condemed..
The word prince is archon and means= a ruler, commander, chief, leader
This means he rules and governs a world, the seed of satan, in fact, by nature, we too [ the elect] were part of this world, but because of election, and the redemptive blood of christ, we are translated from his dark kingdom into that of our election and blessedness..
col 1:

12Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
The elect, have not ourselves to thank, not our wise decsion, not our freewill as it were, but the power of God, which has made us meet, delivering us, rescuing us, from the power and world of darkness, where satan is ruler and god..
The world of the election of grace is saved from satans world of darkness..
Quickly a word on the high priest caiaphas, whom God used or inspired to make the prediction in jn 11, for no where conclusively is he said to be a believer, which means God in His sovereignty does and can use anyone, elect or non elect, to inspire truth from..
Many today in these days of apostacy, God has used to speak forth truth of the word of God, for the sake of His elect, so by no means are we to conclude that those who God uses to show forth some truth of His, by no means should we conclude them a vessel of honor. If you hear everything what they believe, you will come to the conclusion, that everything they believe is not of Gods inspired word..
Lets look again at the prediction in jn 11 vs 52
52And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
Lets see the similarity in this verse and one chapter back in jn 10:
15-16 where Jesus is speaking to ethnic jews:
15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. [ of national Isreal]
16And other sheep[ not of national israel I have, which are not of this fold[ national israel]: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Ladies and Gentlemen, this passage is Identical to jn 11: 50-53..
also it is Identicle to 1 jn 2 2
2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
The focus of the redemptive purposes of God, no longer centers in the sheep of that national people, but now expands the national boundries to include, sheep from all nations of the world, as now the grater fulfillment of the abrahamic coveanant is being realized..
gen 17:
5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
gen 18:
Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?
abrahams blessings had world wide implications outside of palastine..
rom 4:
13For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
In other words, abraham becoming the Father of many nations was not condition on him, but was a promise given[ or revealed] to him unconditionally through Faith.
God gives faith to the elect so we can understand to a certain degree, the things that are freely given to us of God..
1 cor 2:
12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
Abraham had been given the same spirit of God, in newbirth..
But getting back on subject, yes the mentioning now of the world, or whole world, is the switching of the salvaic purposeses from one central nation now to the broader scope of the world, in pursuit of the fulfillment of the abrahamic covenant that all the nations of the world would be blessed..
gal 3:
8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
And Jesus christ coming into the world, was for primarily in pursuit of this purpose of God..
Jn 3 16 ; jn 1 29; 1jn 4:
9In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
10Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

beloved57

Paul expresses this same purpose brought about by the cross of christ..
eph 2:
10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

11Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Now lets look at something back in jn 11:
52And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
Why is it said the children of God ? Is it because they were not by nature sinful and despicable ? Did they need to be born again ?
Yes by nature, the children of God are filthy sinners, yes we are, and yes, we need to be born again..
But, in the decree and purpose of God, IN HIS MIND, we are saved and His children..
2 tim 1:
9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
The children of God are those who are children by election in christ before the world began, though in seed form. In this lies the reason we are children of God, inspite of our sinful ways by nature..
i.e turn to lk 15:
11And he said, A certain man had two sons:

12And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living. 13And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.
This is a picture of the child of God, living as it were in nature as we are born in adam, the the apostacy from God, the riotous ungodly living..and by nature, wrathful children even as others..
14And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want.

15And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.
16And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him.
17And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
18I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
19And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
20And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
21And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
22But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
23And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:
24For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
You see, the son even in his wickedness by nature, which constituted him #1..dead in tresspasses and sins, and #2. Lost.
So even while lost and dead in tresspasses and sins, we the elect are still the children of God..
Paul states the same in eph 2:
1And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Now notice in eph here, vs 2, 3 describes what we are by nature as the prodigal..
vs 4 describes the particular love God had for us and mercy,because we are His children, vs 5 describes the end result of that mercy and love for us..that is our quickening or having been made alive by grace..
Notice eph 2:
5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
and lk 15:
24For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry
notice was dead in lk 15, and the same phrase in eph 2:
1And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
so thats why, we are children of God, even when we are dead in tresspasses and sins, and lost in the world of darkness..
remember Jesus came to seek and to save that which was lost..lk19:
10For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost
What was lost ? The children of God, in the fall of adam..
So God had children not only in israel that had been lost, but also in the nations of the world, and he came to save them too..
It is these children of God, given to the son, before the world began, that he would come and die for..
heb 2:

13And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me. 14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might[shall] destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Jesus christ coming into the world and dying on the tree, destroyed the works of the devil on behalf of those given to him, by the father..these are not of the whole of mankind, but to the seed of abraham..
heb 2:

16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Note vs 17, in things pertaining to God, reconciliation is for the sins of the people, the children of God, the seed of abraham..
I will say this, universal salvation opportunist, really show their ignorance of the things of God, whenever they come to the book of hebrews to make a point about christ death being for all..
one of their favorites is heb 2:
9But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
if one had any understanding of context, the every man is pertaining to those who are of a covenant people, specifically in this case, of the Jewish nation..
The seed of abraham is the covenant people. The uniqueness of the jewish people however is this, you had a covenant people by nature that were of the seed of abraham, and you had a people who by election of grace, who were of the seed of abraham..
This is where a lot of confusion comes in, but the truth of the matter, only the election of grace of all nations, are the true children or seed of abraham..and it was these that Jesus christ identified with in his incarnation, coming in the flesh..
heb 2:
14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
It is because the election of grace , chosen in Jesus christ, before the world began, belonging to God by grace, it was appropiate to therefore send their kinsman redeemer, after their fall in adam, to redeem them, to buy them back, to recover them, this because, the never, ever , were children of the devil..

daniel_1012

Well, I've done my Bible reading for awhile... I'm set for a couple weeks I think.

beloved57

But children of the devil, like cain 1jn 3:
12Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
the jews in jn 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
the jews of matt 23:

32Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. 33Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
All these and others who belong not to the election of grace, are the seed of the devil, and have no redeemer, they will perish in their sins. They had no kinsman redeemer which is christ, and whom the elect had before or was in before the foundation of the world. Thats why election is key gospel doctrine, for it determines who Jesus christ died for, she his blood for.
All the non elect as judas was, are children of perdition..
jn 17:
12While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
They are devils because of their relationship with their father, his seed..
jn 6:
70Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
judas , naturally, was a man or human being as you and I, but spiritually and according to Gods purpose and predetermination he was of the seed of the devil..and so are all those not chosen in christ before the world began..
Notice Jesus said judas was chosen, he had no choice in this matter, neither does the rest of satans seed of perdition, as judas so with all of the non elect:
matt 26:
24The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.
It would good for you oh non elect one, if you had never exisited..
You will hear these words, no matter how religous, or morally upright you lived your life..
matt 7:
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
so, the next time you read the verses of 1 jn 2:
2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
This is referring to the world wide scope of the redeeming death of christ, no longer is Gods eternal love manifested towards those of the jewish state only, like david, abraham, moses,jeremiah, isaiah and ect..but there are those of the nations of the world, who I have propitated for too..
John 11:

50Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
51And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation; 52And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
May God bless the understanding of His dear people for whom christ died..

Rev_Rick

very well written!

__________________

smellycat

Jesus died so all people could be free of evil.like moses helping his people from slavery.Jesus helps all who want to be free.

__________________

1. GOOD BAD SALVATION

Boanerges

Yeah but can you give us any scripture? LOL!

__________________

Barb-b

beloved57

sounds good but thats not biblical, Jesus is not a helper He is a Sovereing God, He gives life and freedom arbitrarily..