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Old 04-14-2008, 10:26 PM   #21
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i agree ,Jesus is the truth and the light.if you read Jesus then you know what our salvation says about living.
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Old 04-15-2008, 12:03 AM   #22
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I also find no basis for purgatory in scripture. Jesus talked explicitly about Heaven and Hell, so why would He not make it clear about purgatory. Why wouldn't He name a place, just like Heaven and Hell? And like one person said on here, If there was a purgatory, then the cross was not only cruel but pointless. He said "It is finished". The work of salvation, the passion is finished.
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Old 04-15-2008, 12:10 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Boanerges View Post
Abraham's bosom was the place old testament saints waited for God's provision through Jesus Christ the Lamb of God. Jesus Christ made the only provision that can make us acceptable in God's eyes. He has become our righteousness and our sanctifaction and there is not a single scriptural indication that there is any need for works to make myself holy (which I could never do according to the Word of God) after I die.

1Co 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

Php 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:


That fact that this ( Abraham's Bosom) is no longer necessary is demonstrated in the Word's of the great Apostle:

2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

If we had to work, suffer or whatever it is you imagine that we could do to make ourselves good enough to be with God no man would ever enter His presence.
Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Jesus Himself is my righteousness and that is how I can boldly approach God:
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

2Co 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

If Christ paid the price I could not pay why would I deceive myself into thinking I can make myself worthy now?
The Church at Galatia made much the same error thinking they could please God by obeying rules and becoming acceptable in their own strength. Jesus Christ is either our Saviour in every detail or He is not our Saviour at all. What part of paying for your sins completely on the cross did He fail in? The answer is of course none.

Careful....you're starting to sound like Martin Luther....LOL...I Love It!!!
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Old 04-15-2008, 12:20 AM   #24
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I also find no basis for purgatory in scripture. Jesus talked explicitly about Heaven and Hell, so why would He not make it clear about purgatory. Why wouldn't He name a place, just like Heaven and Hell? And like one person said on here, If there was a purgatory, then the cross was not only cruel but pointless. He said "It is finished". The work of salvation, the passion is finished.
Even if it isn't explicitly Biblical, Purgatory is logical. Purgatory is merely another step in salvation. It in no way negates the cross- rather, it fulfills it by completing our santification.
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Old 04-15-2008, 12:35 AM   #25
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Even if it isn't explicitly Biblical, Purgatory is logical. Purgatory is merely another step in salvation. It in no way negates the cross- rather, it fulfills it by completing our santification.
So accepting Christ as or Savior and following Him isn't enough?
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Old 04-15-2008, 01:23 AM   #26
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I was wondering what ya'll think of this verse...

1 Corinthians 3:10-15

According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it.

For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,

each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work.

If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.

If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
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Old 04-15-2008, 01:41 AM   #27
 
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This is of course talking about the day of judgement:
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Works based on man's efforts hold no eternal value and will be consumed.
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Old 04-15-2008, 01:44 AM   #28
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Damascene View Post
Even if it isn't explicitly Biblical, Purgatory is logical. Purgatory is merely another step in salvation. It in no way negates the cross- rather, it fulfills it by completing our santification.
It in no way seems logical to me as Jesus did a complete work on the cross.
But logic cannot comprehend God anyway
Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
Isa 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
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Old 04-15-2008, 01:53 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boanerges View Post
It in no way seems logical to me as Jesus did a complete work on the cross.
But logic cannot comprehend God anyway
Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
Isa 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
But when is salvation completed for us as individuals? Will Christians be any different in Heaven than they do on Earth? I think that the most important difference is that in Heaven, we will sin no more: don't you agree?
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Old 04-15-2008, 02:13 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boanerges View Post
This is of course talking about the day of judgement:
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Works based on man's efforts hold no eternal value and will be consumed.
I don't really understand how this verse is proving what you're saying...
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