simba

Does God take away peoples choice to follow Him in order for His plan to be fullfilled?
(Psalm 105:33, 1 Samuel 2:25)

freedom07

We do not choose Him, He chooses us. We may have a relationship with our Savior and then choose to walk away, but this is also only by the Free Will we are given.
Click link, scroll down!
" If choosing God was something a sinner had done, he could boast "I chose God "
http://www.cleavetogod.com/election.htm

__________________
Romans 6:4
4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

violet

Jehovah Nissi

Simba, Can you expand what you are thinking with this and how do the scriptures you are giving relate to it?

I do know that God has given us free will, the choice to choose life or death.
Deut 30:19
"I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you (a choice) life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life , that both you and your descendants may live"
He gave us a hint which one to choose...He said "Choose life." He would be an unjust God to take that choice away from us because He said that we have the choice and if He takes it away from us, that would make Him a liar. Hopes this helps.

Walking in Victory,

J

__________________
2 Tim. 4:2 "Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching."

2 Corinthians 2:14 (AMP) "But thanks be to God, Who in Christ always leads us in triumph [as trophies of Christ's victory] and through us spreads and makes evident the fragrance of the knowledge of God everywhere."

"Church is not a pleasure boat, it is a lifeboat." (Rinehart Bonky)

Compel them to come in so that the Fathers house may be filled!!!! (Luke 14:23)

vinyamar777

Election is usually about function, not about eternal life. It ties in with our spirits: eg a good man is chosen for an evil task, an evil woman for an evil task. Thus, the 12 were chosen as disciples to function, including betrayal. 11 were predisposed towards God, while 1 was not; all were found a place in God’s design. That they did not choose Jesus simply meant, in its setting, that Jesus had bucked the tradition of rabbis being chosen rather than choosing. The Gospels’ “you did not choose me” texts only apply to the 12 chosen to be apostles before the cross.


In the OT we can read of God hardening disobedient people in their own attitude, preventing premature or meaningless repentance. Through their due deserts they either were offered greater blessing – lesson learnt – or they perished but the greater blessing was passed onto others who would learn the lesson. The basic idea of divine punishment in this life is education for better things.


Thus 1 Sam.2:25 is about the evil sons of Eli. Eli’s warning was blocked by Yahweh who saw they were too evil to genuinely repent. Yahweh would be glorified, to benefit his people, by showing himself willing & able to judge their sin. Needless to say some can be removed by death for others’ sakes, yet find entrance into God’s presence. I think Ananias & his wife Sapphira (Ac.5) show Christians prematurely removed from service.


I don’t think Ps.105:33 is the other text you meant to cite.



In short, no, God does not force those who wish to follow him to not do so.

simba

Vinyamar777, you are right about my Psalm reference. I meant Psalm 105:25,
"He turned their heart to hate His people, To deal craftily with His servants."

simba

Maybe a further explanation is in order. Let's study 1 Samuel 2:25.

(NASB) 1Sa 2:25 "If one man sins against another, God will mediate for him; but if a man sins against the LORD, who can intercede for him?" But they would not listen to the voice of their father, for the LORD desired to put them to death.

I have bolded the phrase to look at. This is Eli speaking to his two sons about their sins. Scriptures states that the sons did not listen or heed their fathers words because the Lord desired to put them to death. This means to me that the sons had no choice but to ignore their fathers words and repent because of the will of God. So the question that comes to my mind is when do we loose the ability to choose to repent?

The same for the Psalm 105:25 verse
Psa 105:25He turned their heart to hate His people, To deal craftily with His servants.

This is about the Egyptians in Exodus. Here it states that God turned the Egyptians heard to hate the Isrealites and to deal with them "craftily". In Exodus, Scripture states that the reason the Pharoah would not let the Israelites go is because God made the Pharaoh's heart hard (stubborn). Same question hits me here. If God hardened his heart, he obiviously lost his ability to choose.

I agree with Freedom07, God does choose us first, but we have to choose to recieve Him also as stated, free will. Then I agree with Violet about the unpardonable sin (Matthew 12:31).

As JehovahNissi correctly quoted that scripture states we have choice.

And Vinyamar77 I again agree with when stated "Eli’s warning was blocked by Yahweh who saw they were too evil to genuinely repent.".

Putting all this together, Is there is a point prior to death where God decides to prevent people from listening to the message of salvation? Thereby withdrawing the gift of Grace, because he knows that the person will never repent.

Taking Eli's sons again as example: We can assume that God created them and they were given the same choice for life or death, blessing or curse. Throughout their lives they kept choosing curse, as we all have done prior to being saved. But at some point, God took away their ability of Free will to choose, because he desired to put them to death. I am just curious on your thoughts on this.

SweetSurrender

I'm not that knowledable on the Bible, yet. However, I remember the scripture where "God turned them over to a reprobate mind." I think they did this to themselves. Like a person who fills his mind with porn. He gives no thought to turning his mind towards God. And either God knows he will not give Him a chance, or He knows that this evil man will someday hit bottom so hard that he will come to his senses and cry out to Him. Perhaps in prison. But I think God knows. But death is the law, like gravity, when a person gives his mind over to certain evils.

simba

Honeybare, I understand that, but then God would not have to harden the person's heart. This is something the person does on his own. But my question resolves around when God actively hardens the person's heart to cause the person to act a certain way, as described in my previous post.

smellycat

death of a loved one hardens some people,s heart.